Murray Smith

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Posts by Murray Smith

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  60

  Jehovah's Witnesses Are NOT Under Mind Control

  by PublishingCult in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how would you respond to the assertion that 7.2 million members of the jehovah's witness religion are not under any sort of mind control?.

  the argument being that every one is responsible for their own actions and cannot blame the indoctrinator for what he says and does.

  how could they possibly be under mind control?.

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  Murray Smith

  That's the point . . . Luo bou to . . . not all of them do . . . but thier afraid to say it . . . implications? . . . too huge
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  60

  Jehovah's Witnesses Are NOT Under Mind Control

  by PublishingCult in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how would you respond to the assertion that 7.2 million members of the jehovah's witness religion are not under any sort of mind control?.

  the argument being that every one is responsible for their own actions and cannot blame the indoctrinator for what he says and does.

  how could they possibly be under mind control?.

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  Murray Smith

  Your mum's at a disadvantage there punkofnice . . . I don't think WT has published much of value on the subject (wonder why) . . . and I guess if it's not in the Watchtower . . . ?

  I hate to be a "barrow pusher" but trevor's comment re; the promise of everlasting life is a case in point for use of the weight of implication in mind control . . . the promise is a deception, but the believer declines to question because . . . ? . . . he might "miss out on everlasting life" . . . it's the implication (consequences if you like) that controls the mind . . . not just the reasonableness of the idea itself.

  Well, that's my take on it anyway.
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  60

  Jehovah's Witnesses Are NOT Under Mind Control

  by PublishingCult in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how would you respond to the assertion that 7.2 million members of the jehovah's witness religion are not under any sort of mind control?.

  the argument being that every one is responsible for their own actions and cannot blame the indoctrinator for what he says and does.

  how could they possibly be under mind control?.

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  2. 
  3. 
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  Murray Smith

  A reasonable number of active witnesses today if pressed will admit that WT has got it a little bit wrong occasionally . . . especially those who were around in '75 . . . there was no small amount of disillusionment after that and many left . . . but many stayed on . . . why? when the deception or at least 'error' was plain?

  Surely it was because they continued to believe the WT was God's spokesman as they claim (insert new light) and so dared not to question?

  That's the mind control . . . they believe the GB in favour of what thier own eyes are telling them! . . . the implications are too powerful to accept it
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  60

  Jehovah's Witnesses Are NOT Under Mind Control

  by PublishingCult in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how would you respond to the assertion that 7.2 million members of the jehovah's witness religion are not under any sort of mind control?.

  the argument being that every one is responsible for their own actions and cannot blame the indoctrinator for what he says and does.

  how could they possibly be under mind control?.

  1. 
  2. 
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  Murray Smith

  Hear what your saying trevor . . . there's not much 'new under the sun' in a general sense.

  When it comes to cult mind control however, the deception is much more complex and complete. Rather than influence a particular decision with blatant deciet or a false promise required for a dodgy financial investment . . . mind control highjacks the whole decision making process and the individuals perception of EVERYTHING is changed and the desicions made become based entirely upon what is decreed by those incontrol.

  The controlee is unaware because he has sold himself over entirely to a false set of beliefs that control even his ability to question. In the case of the WT this control is extended using powerful implications for any decision made outside the permission/direction of the controller.

  You only need to consider the desire to cease being a JW . . . the implications are enormous . . . huge, especially for those with family members similarly controlled
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  27

  NZ Earthquake Update

  by Murray Smith in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  update from chch nz just in case anyone out there is interested .

  we're still gettin kicked up the ass down here by some punchy aftershocks .

  still coming at about 1 every 90 mins.

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  Murray Smith

  Update from CHCH NZ just in case anyone out there is interested . . .

  We're still gettin kicked up the ass down here by some punchy aftershocks . . . still coming at about 1 every 90 mins. New damage reports with a nasty whack this am our time (11.20pm now) 4.8 mag at less than 10km's away 10km deep . . .

  These things are so dam close when they let rip its sounds like an atom bomb exploding . . . they are seriouslty LOUD . . . count to five and then wack!

  I will have to sit here all night to make sure the computer screen doesn't fall off the table . . . dammit.

  So if I talk a load of crap I got a good excuse right?
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  34

  The role of the Home Bible Study arrangement in JW brainwashing

  by MrMonroe in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've just started reading "year of doom, 1975: the inside story of jehovah's witnesses" by english author j.c. stevenson.

  it was published in 1967 as basically a memoir of his years in the dubs, including time as a pioneer, and an explanation of the methods used by them to make the organisation grow.. it's not the best "insider" book i've written, but there is a section i've uploaded below that makes some interesting points about the home bible study procedure and why it is so effective at turning interested people into baptism candidates.

  reading through this, i see myself back in the mid-80s sitting there getting led, week by week, into the trap.. this section is from chapter 2, "the seed is watered" in which he explains the typical process following a few return visits.. .

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  Murray Smith

  He definitely wasn't gay . . . . makes ME kinda squirm in my chair though . . .???
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  60

  Jehovah's Witnesses Are NOT Under Mind Control

  by PublishingCult in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how would you respond to the assertion that 7.2 million members of the jehovah's witness religion are not under any sort of mind control?.

  the argument being that every one is responsible for their own actions and cannot blame the indoctrinator for what he says and does.

  how could they possibly be under mind control?.

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  Murray Smith

  I see where you're coming from BSheep . . . also by extension control over in which order the subjects are introduced

  Mr M's post got me thinking about my own indoctrination (23 yrs ago) for quite some time.

  In response to an intense discussion one evening, my study conductor said something like . . . "But stop and think Murray ... what's at stake here ... everlasting life on earth! ... in pardise! . . . you wouldn't want to throw that opportunity away just because something doesn't quite fit right now" . . . as best I can recall anyway.

  I'm sure you've heard something similar at one time? . . . the "implications" block full rejection/acceptance of the idea and leave it "pending"

  This in turn allows for control of subject and also order of presentation. As indoctrination proceeds further, added implications make rejection/ acceptance easier in indoctrinators favour. I think this is critical in having someone accept something that a short time earlier would have seen as totally wierd.

  What makes me want to go kick a dog is realising that in the converted state I became a puppet mind-controller myself
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  60

  Jehovah's Witnesses Are NOT Under Mind Control

  by PublishingCult in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how would you respond to the assertion that 7.2 million members of the jehovah's witness religion are not under any sort of mind control?.

  the argument being that every one is responsible for their own actions and cannot blame the indoctrinator for what he says and does.

  how could they possibly be under mind control?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Murray Smith

  To me Mind control does not rely simply on the successful transmission of ideas . . . when those ideas are heavily weighted with powerful implications for either accepting or rejecting them (ie; guilt, fear) . . . then the mind is no longer free to make decisions based on the IDEAS ALONE. In some cases the implications carry almost the full weight of acceptance/rejection with them to the point where the idea is merely secondary even inconsequential
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  41

  CO was asking for money in his talk last night

  by life is to short in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ok i listened in on the phone last night to the co's talk after the book study.

  i am truly starting to realize that otwo is right and it is just making me more depressed and mad.

  but my husband still goes and it is helpful to be able to bring things up with him.. so i was half listening when he starts to go on about where the money goes that we put into the world wide work box at the back of the hall.. i started to tune in more and he was going on and on about how the ones in the full time service do not have any money and how what we give is what keeps them going and how we need to give.

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  Murray Smith

  I gotta tell ya'll about one occasion when "the worm turned"

  Our presiding O/S, who wasn't well liked, was giving a "special needs talk" on KH funding (we were saving for a new build). It amounted to a severe "ticking off" for the lack of support the Congo was giving to the fund . . . at one point he said . . .

  "seven thousand dollars in two years? . . . I could have saved that on my own"

  A young wit at the back of the hall was heard to say through the stony silence . . . "Well why didin ya then?" . . . barely audible but still heard from the platform.

  A few sniggers followed accompanied by the most voracious inquiry as to who was responsible . . . he was never outed . . . still dine out on it!
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  34

  The role of the Home Bible Study arrangement in JW brainwashing

  by MrMonroe in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've just started reading "year of doom, 1975: the inside story of jehovah's witnesses" by english author j.c. stevenson.

  it was published in 1967 as basically a memoir of his years in the dubs, including time as a pioneer, and an explanation of the methods used by them to make the organisation grow.. it's not the best "insider" book i've written, but there is a section i've uploaded below that makes some interesting points about the home bible study procedure and why it is so effective at turning interested people into baptism candidates.

  reading through this, i see myself back in the mid-80s sitting there getting led, week by week, into the trap.. this section is from chapter 2, "the seed is watered" in which he explains the typical process following a few return visits.. .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Murray Smith

  Nice one Mr M . . . that's put some bones in the soup. You won't be suprised of course, if we confess very similar experiences from a similar time.

  I recall quite a number of very late nights in my case (while the women fell asleep on the couch), thrashing out the creation/evolution debate . . . once till 2.00am in the morning! I would begrudgingly concede a point or two only to reinforce my then current thinking through several visits to the library during the week. . . by the time next study arrived, I had taken all my concessions from the previous week back again and away we went again . . . round 2. I know that even my wife became irritated at my "hijacking the discussion" every week.

  I had largely forgotten those days until now and set to wondering how I eventually got past it.

  The fact is . . . I didn't! My conductor eventually did the deed of introducing the "truth" book adding that such topics would be covered in depth as we went through the book . . . but they never were!

  Looking back, I think I just became so swamped with everything else after the "obstacle had been removed" that it just lost relevance.

  Since leaving WT the old beliefs are still there . . . buried under a pile of dust sure . . . but I don't believe I forsook them entirely.

  Was my mind being "controlled" . . . with the light of your post shone upon matters, I would have to say yes.